Sarah Palin's Target Map and U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords

usaBack in September, Sarah Palin launched a target map. She was targeting 20 House Democrats who voted for the nation's new health care law and who represent districts that Sen. John McCain carried in the 2008 presidential election. Here's the map, which literally had targets over these members of congress.

palin-graphic

One of those targets is for Arizona congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords. She was shot in the head and killed today during a constituent meeting at a Tucson grocery store.

I'm not suggesting Sarah Palin is criminally responsible for Gabrielle Giffords death, but targeting her with a bull's-eye and promoting that fact to your legion of right-wing fanatics seems rather callous in retrospect. I'll be watching this story closely, and hoping the two facts aren't related.

When crazy people follow crazy people, stupid shit will happen. And when Twitter exploded with news of the attack on Giffords, Sarah Palin was busy tweeting about the price of gold.

palin

Irresponsible and insensitive.

Update: Some reports say Giffords is still alive. Here's hoping she pulls through. Meanwhile, since I posted this entry, Palin's team has taken her target map offline. Can you say damage control?


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Comments (114 - click here to join in!)

csc5502

It's only "damage control" because idiots like you post idiotic stuff like this for other idiots to believe.

I admit taking it down is a mistake. She should leave it up and just call out the liberal hacks for what they are.

January 8, 2011 @ 3:11 PM

Sarah's Response

My sincere condolences are offered to the family of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and the other victims of today's tragic shooting in Arizona.

On behalf of Todd and my family, we all pray for the victims and their families, and for peace and justice.

- Sarah Palin

January 8, 2011 @ 3:18 PM

Buffalo Boy Mike

Okay what ever Sarah, and as far as you Csc5502.... I wouldnt be surprised if there were a connection with the shooter and that map and even if there isnt that map didnt help, there have been countless mentions of violence from the right and you know it.

January 8, 2011 @ 3:20 PM

Toronto Mike Verified as the defacto Toronto Mike

@csc5502

Are you suggesting it's not worth mentioning that that congresswoman gunned down today was recently targeted by Sarah Palin with militant imagery and rhetoric?

The gun crosshairs over the targeted members of congress were inappropriate, and when the target is shot, it will become a discussion point.

January 8, 2011 @ 3:21 PM

Anonymous

there's a new york post statement from the congresswoman's father. he was asked if his daughter had any enemies. He said the whole tea party was her enemy

January 8, 2011 @ 3:25 PM

Toronto Mike Verified as the defacto Toronto Mike

Jesse Kelly, the Iraq war vet who took on Gabrielle Giffords in the last election, promoted his event with this tagline:

Get on Target for Victory in November Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office Shoot a fully automatic M16 with Jesse Kelly.

January 8, 2011 @ 3:48 PM

LIndyb

The tea partiers and Sarah Palin spout hateful rhetoric that encourages violence, then they want to act shocked that anyone thinks they are partly to blame for this? Seriously?

January 8, 2011 @ 3:52 PM

Dave Zappa

Sarah Palin is directly responsible for inciting this activity, it is more than free speech to use Shooting targets as devices to communicate "Getting rid of" a political figure. She should be arrested and tried for Murder.

January 8, 2011 @ 3:54 PM

Lazlo

Wow that is some F***** up event. What the hell were they thinking. Please post this all over the blogosphere.

January 8, 2011 @ 3:59 PM

CNN

[Updated at 4:07 p.m. ET] Rep. Gabriella Gifford is in critical condition and a young child has died after a shooting at a political meeting at an Arizona grocery store, a hospital spokesman said Saturday.

Gifford, who was hosting the event, is under anesthesia after undergoing surgery for a single gunshot wound to the head, said Dr. Peter Rhee, Trauma Director at University Medical Center in Tucson.

"The Congresswoman is not deceased. She is in critical condition," Rhee said in a press conference. "I am very optimistic about recovery."

January 8, 2011 @ 4:16 PM

Rafael Block

Rather callous IN RETROSPECT? WTF?!

January 8, 2011 @ 4:17 PM

Bill T

If you elect members to congress, they dont listen and steal Your money, what other option do you have??

January 8, 2011 @ 4:24 PM

Tim Hoffson

Next step: dems begin removing guns from private gun owners and passing laws to make it more difficult for law abiding citizens to buy guns.

January 8, 2011 @ 4:26 PM

B.B.

the Democrats are wusses, when they see something like Palin's idiotic crosshairs poster they need to push back hard

January 8, 2011 @ 4:27 PM

Romy

God Bless Umericah! And the right to bear arms, view hate-filled right wing "news" (hello FOX) and a country that used to be a democracy and is now a plutocracy. Thank goodness there's a border between them and us.

January 8, 2011 @ 4:37 PM

Irvine

*LOL* Oh MY GOD Mike. What a bunch of bullshit. You have the audacity to link the two? Exactly why does Sarah Palin have to answer for the actions of some whack job? What's next, are you going to blame Eminem for spousal abuse? Or Kurt Cobain when someone pops a cap in their own head?

And I love the accusations of "right wing" types with guns. How about the LEFT WING environmentalist nutbar that was bombing the oil pipeline a few years ago? Or the union boys years back in the Giant Mine in Yellowknife that killed their fellow workers (9 of them).

Or how about that crazy left wing dude that was head of the National Socialist Workers Party. His name was Hitler.

January 8, 2011 @ 5:33 PM

Chimera13

"I'm not suggesting Sarah Palin is criminally responsible for Gabrielle Giffords death.."
Well, actually you are.
So you are just as guilty as you accuse others of being.
BTW, get your facts straight. Giffords was shot, and last I heard, is NOT dead.

January 8, 2011 @ 5:39 PM

Teen With Sense

The fact that Palin was stupid enough in the first place to upload a map with targets over her liberal counterparts heads was in the VERY least tasteless and cringe-worthy. The fact that one was near-assassinated should not be merely dismissed. She should own up in the VERY least that what she posted was unprofessional and stupid. If extremists saw that they well could have thought they were helping her out by killing off a woman who has begun to HELP our nation by voting for healthcare reform. Before tearing this post apart right-wingers, get your facts straight and include some intelligent substance in your comments if your capable.

January 8, 2011 @ 6:09 PM

Andrew Bignell

Sarah Palin doesn't have to answer for the shooting - that would make no sense.

However, she should and will be judged for publishing a map with crosshairs over members of congress. That map connects violent symbolism with political action. It was terribly inappropriate for her to do that and expect to be one of our political leaders. It is yet another example of poor decision-making on her part.
If she wishes to be our President, she needs to start living up to a higher standard.

January 8, 2011 @ 6:10 PM

Dave K.

so this is what right wingers call their "second amendment remedies..." eh?

January 8, 2011 @ 6:13 PM

Dr Chavago

in 20-30 years America will catch up with the rest of the planet.When you put a lit cigar in the hands of a 2 year old, don't complain when your house burns down.

January 8, 2011 @ 6:20 PM

Ajax Mike

"Or how about that crazy left wing dude that was head of the National Socialist Workers Party. His name was Hitler."

LOL

Uhm, despite the "Socialist" in the name of the party, the Nazis were a far-RIGHT organization, not leftist.

Oh, and Godwin's Law. That sure didn't take long.

January 8, 2011 @ 6:41 PM

snappydecision

Oh please don't forget Palin's instruction to tea party followers to RELOAD! RELOAD!

January 8, 2011 @ 6:48 PM

Irvine

No Ajax Mike, the Nazi's were NOT a far right party. They did not espouse the merits of the free market NOR did they push for smaller government.

The problem with you is that you are too typical of the average Ontarian who erroneously believes that only "right wing" people can be racists & violent. Political slant has nothing to do with someone's fucked up whack job mentality.

Of course "Toronto Mike" doesn't get that. He immediately places the blame toward Palin.

Blaming Palin for this death is like blaming Marilyn Manson for Columbine. It's the realm of retarded idiots that follow along instead of thinking for themselves.

January 8, 2011 @ 7:26 PM

Toronto Mike Verified as the defacto Toronto Mike

Irvine and others, I wasn't suggesting Palin is responsible for this death... I think I made that very clear.

I was saying her use of violent rhetoric and military allusions are irresponsible and dangerous.

And really, if she was fine with the targets shown on takebackthe20.com when I visited there early this afternoon, why did she have the site taken down? Clearly one of her targets getting shot in the head became a significant inconvenience to her and her politics.

And when I wrote the entry, the NPR source I was reading said Giffords was dead. When I learned that was erroneously reported, I updated the entry. I've very pleased to hear Giffords has survived.

January 8, 2011 @ 7:36 PM

Ajax Mike

Whoa, slow down there Irvine. I didn't say "that only "right wing" people can be racists & violent," now did I? I called the Nazi party "Far-Right" and that's all. What does that mean?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_right

Hey, look at that. Nazism is the second example listed, right after fascism. Do I think Republicans are Far-Right? God no.

As for the Palin map, it's stupid imagery to use for the simple fact that eventually something like this was bound to happen. Using rhetoric tinged with violence is going to come back to you when violence happens, whether or not that rhetoric actually caused the violence. Such is life in politics. When the same message can be expressed without the violent imagery, only the short-sighted would choose to use it anyway.

January 8, 2011 @ 7:43 PM

Kpopper

To those who think that Palin does not have to answer for the shooting, you should do research on people who the USA has tried in the World Court and put in prison for inciting violence (people who did not kill anyone, but who did crazy crap like Palin). Just another case where if someone in the USA does something stupid, it is ok, but someone in a different country does the same thing it is a crime.

January 8, 2011 @ 7:45 PM

Argie

Firstly, it was stupid of Plain to allow her people to use targets. However, this shooting is not on her or any right wing politician or media person who hates Democrats. This 20 something was a lunatic who only needed an excuse to do what he did.

The other thing that strikes me is that this kind of blood shed happens daily in the muslim world and Mike is no where to found for a comment or condemnation. Innocent people are routinely killed by muslim terrorists and people like mike couldn't care less BUT now some wacko kills a bunch of Americans and suddenly, he pipes up.

This shooting only proves one thing - everywhere across this world, there are nut jobs just waiting to go off. Isn't it funny he had no time for religion but loved Marx and Hitler.

Now is a good time to pray for those hurt or killed today - not attack Palin.

January 8, 2011 @ 8:28 PM

Toronto Mike Verified as the defacto Toronto Mike

Giffords herself spoke of being on Palin's target map....

Giffords, a supporter of Obama's healthcare overhaul, had warned previously the rhetoric had prompted violent threats against her and vandalism at her office.

"The rhetoric is really heated. Not just the calls but the e-mails, the slurs," Giffords told MSNBC at the time.

She referred back to a map of electoral targets put out by former Alaska Republican Governor Sarah Palin, each one marked by the crosshairs of a rifle sight.

"Sarah Palin has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district and when people do that, they've gotta realize there are consequences to that action," Giffords said.

January 8, 2011 @ 8:50 PM

Massage

I'm still hoping that America will wake up from this whole era one day and realise how ridiculous it all was

January 8, 2011 @ 9:27 PM

dragonemisis

Manson told his minions to "kill the pigs" and off they went. He wasn't there he just ordered it and he is still in jail 40 years later.
Sarah Palin issued a poster with gunsight targets over the names of Representatives of our government. S...he didn't personally pull the trigger, her minions did. I hope she rots in pr...ison for 40-50 years for inciting the lunitic fringe she calls followers.

January 8, 2011 @ 9:38 PM

Naoma

I just read this in the latest NYTimes article: “We’re on Sarah Palin’s targeted list,” Ms. Giffords said last March. “But the thing is the way that she has it depicted has the cross hairs of a gun sight over our district. When people do that, they’ve got to realize there’s consequences to that.”
In the Congresswoman's own words. Palin needs to experience consequences!

January 8, 2011 @ 10:03 PM

Toronto Mike Verified as the defacto Toronto Mike

Someone just sent me a link to this clip of The View from March 2010. Very interesting, in retrospect....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mlYHiJCqBI

January 8, 2011 @ 10:32 PM

Pat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics


It's what the Tea Party and Palin are doing.
Inciting violence in a somewhat coded message.

January 8, 2011 @ 10:43 PM

Pat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics


It's what the Tea Party and Palin are doing.
Inciting violence in a somewhat coded message.

January 8, 2011 @ 10:44 PM

rhackney

Both sides spit out hate - the left and the right polarized this country - no one can rise about the fray - divided we fall

January 8, 2011 @ 11:20 PM

Cindy Dahm Wilson

Sarah Palin had nothing to do with this tragedy. Her website posting the names of the members of Congress who voted for Health Care had nothing to do with it either, so please quit trying to contrive justification for blame in this regard. Anyone wanting to know who among Congress and the Senate voted in favor of HC can obtain this information in any number of ways. Ever heard of the Internet? Whadayu going to do, blame and therefore condemn every media outlet and news source providing such information as what Sarah provided in her website? Come on! People who act on hatred, prejudice or different religious or political views by going out and committing violence HAVE IT IN THEM ANYWAY REGARDLESS! No one else can be blamed for this! If so, no body would be responsible for their own actions! It's so simple yet it seems the need to place blame is so prevalent. If you think about it, placing blame itself has a great potential of inciting certain ones to commit violence. See what I mean? See how ridiculous all this is? I personally believe those who wish to discredit Sarah Palin will find fault with her no matter what she does! But she's a strong lady and will, as usual, stand up and rise above the unwarranted attacks and baseless criticism. We can disagree with others; that doesn't mean we want them dead. If placing blame is an attempt to silence the voices of opposition, then the "blame game" will undoubtedly go on and on. Hopefully those who know better will not be fooled by this deception, and will continue to exercise their first amendment rights without fear....

January 8, 2011 @ 11:29 PM

kpopper

This is kind of a crazy debate that North Americans typically get involved with! Defending pure stupidity! Really no use flogging that dead horse! People who think they are right cannot learn anything!

Orwell quotes sums the situation up very well:

Advertising is the rattling of a stick inside a swill bucket.


In our time political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible.

In our age, there is no such thing as "keeping out of politics." All issues are political issues, and politics itself is a mass of lies, evasions, folly, hatred and schizophrenia.

My personal favorite:

There are some ideas so wrong that only a very intelligent person could believe in them.


January 9, 2011 @ 12:00 AM

Bkottawaanon

Worse thing ever is she told conservatives late march not to retreat but to RELOAD. Wow. Someone incited violence and now as far as Im concerned has the proverbial blood on her hands.

January 9, 2011 @ 12:34 AM

wow really

Gabrielle Gifford and the Federal Judge had it coming. Congress and our political "machine" is turning this country to crap. Inflation by unregulated FED, BAILOUTS, Tax cuts for the RICH, soldiers (middle class/poor) killed for lies that are based on corporations and the rich wanting oil holdings in the middle east, Wikileaks showing the evil nature of our government like spying, public and federal employees earning more than private, the Chinese, Russians and previously many of the Middle East dropped the US dollar, mainstream news like CNN, MSNBC avoid topics like these in mainstream media, this young man was brave.

As for the one victim a 10 year old child, I do not condone hurting a child, ever, but things are going to get worse before getting better, if possible at this point. For those about to take on the WRONGDOERS, I understand but please watch out for the children. As adults, we all got it coming, like in the movie Unforgiven. Americans are not like the French, we do not make large demonstrations. Instead we stew, and we see what is going on, we are not as stupid as many of the rich would like to believe. When we fire back, you will know it in a crazed rampage. Americans know where the rich live, Congressmen and other State and Federal workers hang out, and we even know how to hide. We will leak CORPORATE SECRETS and take the world down with us. All it takes is vandalism to public property, avoiding paying taxes and using only cash, or in these extreme cases shootings, bombings and even anthrax, to even the playing field. Now I suggest that those in "Power" wake up and give the regular citizen back what is theirs or I fear there will be hell to pay here in America. What do they have to lose at this point. The shooter of Gabrielle Gifford was in his 20s with his whole life ahead of him. He gave it up because the world pushed hard enough to make him push back. I am leaving this lunatic asylum as soon as I get situated in another country. The corruption between the sheeple or corrupt controlling rich is a war I do not plan to stick around and watch play out. I kind of figured that Arizona or Texas would be a likely first of eruption. I also figured a problem might be around the corner with all the dead birds and fish, HA, HA, HA.

Peace Out

January 9, 2011 @ 1:21 AM

June Bug

Sarah Palin had everything to do with this event. Her rhetoric has been encouraging lunatics to do just such an act. Short-sighted--stupid leadership. She's crap. Why defend such an unconscionable greedy politician?

January 9, 2011 @ 1:47 AM

Gary

A 22-year-old woman in Arizona, Caitie Parker, claimed on her Twitter feed that she went to high school and college with the gunman, and was in a band with him. She described his politics in the past as "left wing, quite liberal, & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy." She also described him as having a lot of friends "until he got alcohol poisoning in '06" and dropped out of school. "Mainly loner very philosophical."

January 9, 2011 @ 1:50 AM

UKBob

Good for you Toronto Mike - the connection between Palin and Kelly's incitements and what happened is obvious to all. But the crazies and the zombies are out tonite. Glad I'm a long way away, but very sad about this.

January 9, 2011 @ 1:57 AM

Gary

Parker described the gunman meeting Rep. Gabrielle Giffords previously: "He was a political radical & met Giffords once before in '07, asked her a question & he told me she was 'stupid & unintelligent.'"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40980334/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/from/toolbar

January 9, 2011 @ 1:58 AM

Gary

Hey Mike, If you're "not suggesting Sarah Palin is criminally responsible" how about pointing out that the Daily KOS had a "target list" with Giffords on it? Funny how that page was quickly scrubbed. All you libs spewing hate at Palin; pot...meet kettle.
http://hillbuzz.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/screen-shot-2011-01-08-at-3-05-33-pm.png

January 9, 2011 @ 3:10 AM

Romy

Really, really sad. A once great country just continues to lose its' way as the former democracy continues to evolve into a plutocracy. Pity them.

January 9, 2011 @ 4:53 AM

Fet

Putting gunsights on people in a country where any fascist redneck can have a M-16 in his wardrobe is like directly pulling the trigger.

January 9, 2011 @ 4:58 AM

imsoblessed

Sarah Palin has always been a hunter, it's just here resently that she has started hunting humans. But this time she is letting people with no sence or has mental problems pull the trigger for her. The common citizen would have been arrested for posting something like this towards a government representive. Why is she not in jail? And of course we all know she is not the brightess cookie in the jar. There is no doubt in my mind that she is partially to blame for this terrible crime. Please take caustion to all the others that are still on her hit list. It is very scary to think she might have been the Vice President of the USA. All you users that are following her better wake up and smell the roses. God doen't like ugly.

January 9, 2011 @ 8:09 AM

C.A.T.

It would be nice if all the folks bemoaning the "targets" on the Palin map had some familiarity with the graphic arts. The white circles with the cross through them, extending past the borders of the circles are registration marks. They are used in the graphics industry when it is important to make an overlay line up with some other image, for instance making sure a transparent radar image of a rainstorm correctly lines up with a map of the United States. I know some of the drawings used to make the Space Shuttle have these types of registration marks on them, but the people who built the Shuttle did not think there were gun sights all over the drawings! Telescopic sights are represented by a clear circle in which the cross does NOT extend beyond the border of the circle.
As to "targeting", I suspect that a lot of people reading this have been asked by their boss on occasion "Have you reached your target for the month/quarter?" "Target" as used to mean to set a goal toward was probably borrowed originally from archery as it seems to me that version of useage has been around longer than guns!

January 9, 2011 @ 9:53 AM

Jeffrey

WOW! How does Sarah get away with this, God?

January 9, 2011 @ 10:05 AM

Toronto Mike Verified as the defacto Toronto Mike

@C.A.T.

Nice spin job there. Those "targets" weren't the crosshairs of a gun sight at all! They were registration marks!

In all seriousness, the gun rhetoric tossed around by Palin during her attacks on health care reform were clearly intentional. On some level, she's accountable. The crosshairs of a gun sight, the command to reload, it's impossible to overlook her violent verbiage and military imagery when there's an assassination attempt on one of her targets.

It's time to change the tone, before someone else gets hurt.

January 9, 2011 @ 10:21 AM

nosebleed

Relating the targets to graphic arts assumes that the large population of Americans actually know what a registration mark. Most of all, using words like "reload" and "target for removal" (Sarah's words, not mine) certainly have nothing to do with inciting violence NOT. As far as holding people accountable it is lame to suggest that she is not culpable. Does a person who yells fire in a theater get by with it? (NO, it is illegal regardless if there is a fire or not). The maps proposed by the democrats focus on states, not people. I suppose that any follower of SP will give her a buy on this one. I don't and most clear headed Americans can see the connection. As far as using twitter tweets as a reference of someones politcal alignment - well, I supposed everything you read on the internet is true!!

January 9, 2011 @ 10:24 AM

I.M. Small

ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT

She was in Sarah Palin's gunsights truly,
Republicans applaud themselves with that --
It's how to deal with Democrats unruly
As bullets match bravado tat for tat.

January 9, 2011 @ 10:38 AM

Breesus

If it was letter X's placed all over the map instead of cross hairs, would this have ever happened?

January 9, 2011 @ 10:41 AM

thank god i'm not white

this white american tragedy happened because a white woman's son," obama" became the president of america.
this white arizona tragedy should be a wake up call for every non-white human being around the world about the mental health of white america and the american whites deep love for racism, hate and violence.

January 9, 2011 @ 10:59 AM

Peter

Ms Palin may not have pulled the trigger, but she pointed the gun.

January 9, 2011 @ 11:39 AM

Ajax Mike

I think its far FAR too early to link this to Sarah Palin, as much as I dislike her rhetoric. The suspect is quite obviously disturbed and paranoid. I doubt he had any motivation for choosing this particular target other than convienience (he's probably local), opportunity (she had no security, meeting in public) and his general paranoia about the government in general.

Unfortunatly for Sarah Palin, one of this man's victims was on a list that she published, along with graphics suggesting gunsights. Coupled with her other suggestive rhetoric, it's quite easy (as we can see in the comments) to draw a straight line from the shooting to her. Her opponents (or the talking heads for them) certainly will. Even if it's simply not true. Palin's done in politics, even if (when, I suspect) it turns out that she had nothing to do with the motive.

Everybody take a deep breath... relax... and lets give the facts a chance to come in. I only wish the media would do the same.

January 9, 2011 @ 12:33 PM

Kristen

Disgusting. Palin and her merry band of inbreds need to be run out of the public discourse.


Embrace this tragedy, Caribou Barbie...you own it.

January 9, 2011 @ 1:21 PM

pam Director

Sarah is accountable for the hate mongering that she has encouraged, Freedom of speech shouldn't be allowed to induce hate crimes. Sarah's language should be addressed and a judge should decide her punishment. Let's not allow such behavior to crop up in the future. Enough! Sarah please keep your mouth shut and go home. No More!!!!!!!!!
Who thinks that she should be held accountable?

January 9, 2011 @ 1:39 PM

Lucia

Believing myself to be still sane, I am trying to get a grip here.

From what I've read the gunman's grasp of reality is tenuous at best, and his writings (such as they are) don't seem to line up neatly with any political ideology. He may have been set off by Palin's target map or by something else entirely, and if a GOP politician had happened to hold an event on the same day the tragedy might have happened there instead, and conservatives would be trying to pin the blame on any vaguely left-related material that seemed plausible.

That said, Palin's map is irresponsible to say the least, and her disingenuousness is revealed by her spokeswoman's firing back at the left while the map is scrubbed from her site. To anyone not working in a specialized field those look like gun sights, and there's no way around that. Palin should apologize and dial back her rhetoric. Just because there's plenty of fire lying around doesn't make it OK to play with it.

And all of us on both sides of the aisle should try to entertain the notion that, lightning rods and violent crazies notwithstanding, the vast vast majority of us aren't evil, we all want what's best for our country (whatever country that may be), and we should try listening more and shouting less. I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Massachusetts liberal and will remain one until the day I die, but I can understand why Tea Partiers are ticked off. The rich and powerful make the rules, and it's no surprise that the rules keep tilting the playing field ever more steeply. I just hope the rest of us don't slide off it altogether.

As an aside, in this short post I've used "line up," "set off," and "firing back." It can be hard to draw the line between innocent metaphor and deliberate provocation.

January 9, 2011 @ 1:42 PM

Valerie

My heart is with Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and all those that have been victimize by the actions of Sara Palin stupid incentive actions. Palin in my opinion, is nothing more than Sen. John McCain trash, which the disposal of is way overdue. Sara Palin is like one of those characters from the movie "Deliverance". real trash.

January 9, 2011 @ 2:32 PM

Timothy Peterson

As a commited liberal I find it very sicking that ANYONE would link Sarah Palin to this obviously disturbed assassin.While her use of the bullseye symbols were dumb,they did NOT cause this!

January 9, 2011 @ 3:25 PM

BOBcobb

Maybe Dick Chaney will go hunting with Sarah & hit a nonintended target.

January 9, 2011 @ 3:36 PM

BOBcobb

Maybe Dick Chaney will go hunting with Sarah & hit a nonintended target.

January 9, 2011 @ 3:36 PM

Bobcobb

It's dejavue all over again. I'm seeing double.

January 9, 2011 @ 3:40 PM

Bobcobb

It's dejavue all over again. I'm seeing double.

January 9, 2011 @ 3:40 PM

Barak Obaa

Buncha fucking PC fools you are if you thing Sarah Palin means anything in this tragedy. Wake up people and stop the idiotic rhetoric.

January 9, 2011 @ 4:22 PM

Sammi

If anyone of us posted a map like this one...I think we would be in custody right now.

January 9, 2011 @ 4:49 PM

Anonymous

Even the insane get their information from somewhere

January 9, 2011 @ 5:02 PM

cancun

Is it not obvious. I believe this whole thing is a gentle intigation for the nut cases to do their dirty deeds. In this case it worked exactly as the hoped. Exactly how Rush, Shaun and some other idiots make a living instigating violence against those that they think prevent them from agrandizement.

January 9, 2011 @ 5:51 PM


John0123 Denver

Keep moving along, folks. Nothing to see here.
No lessons to learn. A simple senseless tragedy.

Pay no attention to that Glock killing machine with its high-capacity clip.
Just remember, all this could have been done with a knife or a club.

Pay no attention to those cross-hairs on Sarah Palin’s “to-do” map.
Don’t jump to conclusions.
Just remember, this guy could have been a left-winger.
Probably a government-loving left-winger.

Remain calm folks, keep moving along. Nothing to see here.
No lessons to learn. A simple senseless tragedy.

January 9, 2011 @ 5:56 PM

Thank You for Saving the map info

as sources of the evidence on the internet have been disappearing all day ...

www.topix.net/topstories/gunman

January 9, 2011 @ 6:54 PM

Whatheheck

Palin, Jesse Kelley and the Tea Party should be put on trial as accessories to pre-meditated murder.

Here's the most damning evidence from Tea Party candidate, Jesse Kelly who ran against Giffords but lost:

"Get on Target for Victory in November Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office Shoot a fully automatic M16 with Jesse Kelly."

Is it true that at that event, a cut-out of Gifford was used? Incredibly morose.

We need to send a clear message that it's not OK to incite violence and get away with it.

And Senator McCain should be recalled -- he's spineless, without courage and lost in Sarah's orbit.

January 9, 2011 @ 8:31 PM

b58bob

Nice going Sarah-
One Target down-
How many to go- 19 ?
If you don't belive your political rhetoric has nothing to do with the shootings,Your Delusional.

January 9, 2011 @ 8:32 PM

Rob

Seems to me that Lucia (look back about 15 posts or so) really nailed it. I took some time and watched this guys youtube videos. He had some problems. Perhaps whoever had a close relationship with him should have been getting involved a little bit more. There is NO chance this guy was stable. He needed some help and didn't get it.
Now look where we are.

And by the way, just cause he is white and American, doesn't make this NOT terrorism. (i know...i know, double negetive..sigh...)

January 9, 2011 @ 10:20 PM

Randall Dunning

Now for some perspective from one who made maps for 15 years:

The symbols used on Palin's map are called "Monument markers". You can see on on the cover of the map reading book for kids called MapZone below:

http://mapzone.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/mapzone/PagesHomeworkHelp/docs/easypeasy.pdf

Monument markers are commonly used to show points of interest on maps. Since Palin is interested in the defeat of Democrats, it is a natural and proper marker to use.

It is time for intellectually dishonest liberals to drop the "rifle sight fiction" before they embarrass themselves further.

January 9, 2011 @ 11:15 PM

Steve Giordanello

Ok, for the folks out there who are clueless about the Nazi party, let's take a minute and breakdown what was the Nazi party's affiliation.

Nazi is short for Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, or National Socialist German Workers Party. Let's break out the exact meaning of the party:

Nationalist - For Germans, this is a very RIGHT WING concept. Unlike England or France, Germany only became a nation in the mid 1800's. The sense of being German was a concept less than 100 years old by the time Hitler came around. Lots of right wing Germans appreciated the Nazi's pitch to the Nationalist spirt.

Socialist - This is a LEFT WING concept that dealt with socialism. This is not the same type of collectivism as Communism, Naziism's ideological enemy. Here, socialism was more focused on a combination of turning the clock back to pre-department store days (think before Sears in the 1920's) but at the same time large industrial corporations using a state-oriented mindset, versus the type of competitive business seen in the US.

German - Again, this is a RIGHT WING concept, like Nationlist mentioned before.

Workers - Again, this is a LEFT WING concept that appealed to blue-collared, or small business (think butchers or bakers) owners.

The idea behind the Nazi party was that they were neither left nor right, but overarching and outside of the left-right spectrum.

January 9, 2011 @ 11:27 PM

Randall Dunning

As a final point, below are rifle site reticles:

http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/opticsplanet/leopold-reticles.jpg

and below are monument markers:

http://nyfalls.com/maps-topo-key.html

See: Principal Point

January 9, 2011 @ 11:50 PM

Randall Dunning

Nice try but no cigar on the etymology of Nazi Fascism. It was a socialistic movement that embraced the idea of retaining the nation state. This was in opposition to international socialism (Communism) which posted the dissolution of the nation state. Fascism and Marxism were evil fraternal twins of progressive socialism.

Next Fascism had 3 components which it shared with Marxism:

Imminence: concerns of the moment trump transcendent considerations.

Utilitarianism: Social ethic where that which advances the ruling proposition is by definition good.

Existentialism: Personal experience is elevated and offered as the exchange for essential liberty.

One last observation: Marxism is how atheism expresses itself politically while Fascism is how paganism expresses itself politically.

January 9, 2011 @ 11:57 PM

Randall Dunning

My kids watch the old 80s detective cartoon series Case Closed regularly. One of the hallmarks of the bumbling detective in the story is his insane willingness to jump to false and forced conclusions before examining the evidence. This is what the left is doing in the case of this shooting. Anyone who blames Sara Palin has a big evidence mountain to climb:

1. Demonstrate that the perpetrator studied Palin's map.

2. Demonstrate that the perpetrator chose his target based upon that map and not upon other considerations.

3. Demonstrate that the perpitrator was either a Palin supporter or a Palin fellow traveler.

4. Demonstrate that Palin had more than a desire to see the "targeted" people defeated politically.

5. Demonstrate that the publishing of the map was necessary and sufficient to provoke the shooting. (For something to be "causal" it must be both necessary and sufficient for the act to occur.)

And I could go on. Nobody on the left has offered anything remotely resembling sane or sober analysis required to make the charges being wildly tossed about. Like the bumbling idiot detective mentioned above, they falsely accuse a political enemy for whom they have great personal animus, enmity, and hatred. It is solely upon the basis of their animus that they blame that person without anything remotely resembling evidence that would stand in any competent court of jurisdiction. Here we see with crystal clarity how the "tolerant liberal mind" works and it is not a pretty picture. The crime they REALLY want prosecuted is standing in opposition to the left's political goals.

January 10, 2011 @ 12:14 AM

Romy

Nice spin job there Randall.

January 10, 2011 @ 5:05 AM

Wayner

Why is there always one guy in class who knows far too much about the nazi party?

January 10, 2011 @ 8:01 AM

Hector

@Randall....to most people thse symbols look like gunsights. Your rationalization and semantics don't take away from what people perceive.

You can explain it and call it whatever you like...someone or many weren't thinking when they put that map online.

January 10, 2011 @ 9:32 AM

Justin

Of course the hate-filled rhetoric of the right is responsible. Yes it ought be criminal. Inciting violence has long been a crime in our nation. As to the idiots on the right that are trying to link this honorable victim to Hitler, I suggest the learn of congressional seizure number 248. In which Prescott Bush and Herbert Walker were stripped of the former Harriman Bank for financing hitler's war machine. The so called religious right in the American political system is neither religious or correct. Simply playing to the baser aspects of a purloined American dream.

January 10, 2011 @ 10:03 AM

Louis

Glad to see that you removed your "Death Map" from your site.

January 10, 2011 @ 10:07 AM

Il Duce

From over the 80 posts I've read I can't believe no one really struck at the main and only issue at hand here. Mental Health or lack thereof.

Using this horrific tragedy as propaganda against the right or Palin and others like Limbaugh is an insult to the Giffords family and the other families of victims involved. Despite what people like Toronto Mike, Romy and Buffalo Boy Mike would have you believe, no one in their right mind can link this to politics or one specific person. Everyone ignored Jared's long track record of disturbing behaviour and it had nothing to do with left or right.

To Toronto Mike can the song 'Bodies' be blamed for this?

To Romy, being a Beatles fan can you blame J.D. Salinger for Chapman killing Lennon? or do you blame Yoko for triggering Chapman's thoughts?

To Buffalo Boy Mike, did politics have anything to with Hinckley trying to kill Reagan? or do we blame Martin Scorcese for directing Jodi Foster in Taxi Driver?

Foolish, right guys? Picking one person or one specific incident is shortsighted. What if Giffords was a Republican? What if Giffords wan't the target and Jared decided to open fire on innocent victims? What then?

Shame on you in trying to link this to politics when families are mourning the dead and injured. Remember the fire within Jared was burning long before he brought a gun to that shopping mall in Tucson.

January 10, 2011 @ 11:32 AM

Fet

Sorry, my last comment was about C.A.T.'s January 9, 2011 / 09:53 one.

January 10, 2011 @ 11:51 AM

Fet

The comment that's awaiting moderation.

January 10, 2011 @ 11:52 AM

Whatheheck

Shame on you for trying to discount Palin's own words and braggadocio in reference to the "death map," that had symbols meant to invoke crosshairs. You know it, and Palin is a coward in denying it.

And let's not forget, Gifford's Tea Party opponent, Jesse Kelly's tasteless "political" campaign event using M16s to "target" the opposition -- please explain that one away

It can't be any clearer.

January 10, 2011 @ 11:57 AM


Nigel Trousershrapnel

If those on the right would be so generous. Could you explain why so many have made this connection to Palin and the right wing media, regardless of whether or not Mr. Loughren had been wearing a tinfoil hat for the better part of his adult life?
Sheer coincidence?
Can you examined the messaging from the right with an eye to how it may have been misconstrude by so many?
Over one million Americans have been killed by guns in the US of A since 1968. While more civilized nations would see this as a genocide, most right wing Americans would see this as the price of freedom.
p.s. not all of the shooters (sorry, freedom loving patriots), were wearing the tinfoil hats.

January 10, 2011 @ 1:15 PM

jimspice

Registration marks! Yeah, that it! Yeah, that's the ticket. And "don't retreat, reload" refers to color treatments, as in "reload the ink cartridge." Yeah, that's it!

January 10, 2011 @ 2:03 PM

Romy

@ Il Duce - well, I suppose that if Salinger or Yoko or anyone else had the 1980 equivilent of a website with a graphic of a shotgun site over the Dakota building or NYC with John Lennon's name associated with it (as Palin did with the wounded US Congresswoman) than, hmmm, yeah, I would hold them responsible. Your argument is flawed in that "Catcher In The Ry was a work of literature that made no direct mention of shooting a public figure. It was misinterpreted by a clearly disturbed individual - as was Palin's "message". The major point of difference being that one message was, compared to the other, quite explicit. Salinger's novel, written a couple of decades before Lennon's murder, talked about hating "phonies" (as Chapman perceived Lennon to be). Palin NAMED an individual (actually several) with a gun site over their city along with political rhetoric like "don't retreat, reload". Big difference.

January 10, 2011 @ 4:22 PM

Il Duce

@ Romy

I'm glad you've had time to think and reflect, but you have only reinforced my argument. You mentioned that Chapman was a disturbed individual who took the Catcher in the Rye out of context. I guess Jared Lee Loughner was just a regular All-American kid who saw Palin's target picture and decided to act out. Really Paul?

You're a pretty smart guy Romy and I can't believe you're actually linking this to Palin. If we base it on fact alone, the info coming out Arizona is showing that there is no evidence of a Palin link but suggests Jared is nothing more than a deeply disturbed individual as his track record is indicating. Hmm, sounds like Chapman or Hinckley or insert any mentally disturbed individual who acts out on delusional thoughts.

You and many others who are smarter than I are trying so hard to put this on Palin's shoulders without fact. What about the other mass murders that have occured in America like Columbine, is it a political issue? Just because your politics lean to the left doesn't mean you have to trivialize the deaths of six others or the 14 who were injured.

What would you say if Jared was a Democrat? Would his political affilation mean anything then? You missed my point and that was this tragedy was committed by an individual with severe mental health issues.

Sorry Paul for getting upset but there is a black dog barking in someone's backyard who is telling me to write these things. Sorry got to go, the dog is starting to talk, I mean bark, again.

January 10, 2011 @ 9:12 PM

Dino Turbes

Palin is the queen of capitalizi­ng. She should be ashamed of the language she has used. Unstable individual­s take hateful words and use them for their own means.

January 10, 2011 @ 11:09 PM

Mike from Lowville

@ I's 1 Douche, shut the fuck up and bring me another beer and slice of pepperoni and cheese! Oh, and here's your tip. Stick to Italian food!

January 11, 2011 @ 5:19 PM

Irvine

If Jared was a Democrat this is what would happen. He would not be an evil individual but a broken one. The slant would be how the world let him down. He would be a victim. Then the "left" would turn and claim the government "lets these people get this way".

That's what would happen.

January 12, 2011 @ 12:00 AM

Mike from Lowville

@ Irvine, can I have your crystal ball when your done? Seems like it works. I want it to see if I will win the big one.(MAX Lotto)If your crystal ball truly works,I will know to either keep buying or to stop wasting my money. Thanking you in advance.

January 12, 2011 @ 10:22 AM

jonobo

I didn't notice any mention the DLC "Targeting Strategy" map of Republican "ripe targets" who were "BEHIND ENEMY LINES".
http://nicedeb.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/dlc-targeting-map.gif . Seems to me the worst Palin can be accused of here is being unoriginal. So Mikey, do you have any irrational bile left to spew at the Dems for using THIS map?

January 12, 2011 @ 10:23 AM

Il Duce

@ Lowman from Mikeville

Typical. Here we are trying to discuss a serious topic like rational human beings and you have to resort to slurs. Typical form you pal.

What's really wrong Mike. Can you relate to Jared? Hate your job? Daddy beat you? Mummy drank too much? Kids in rehab? Wife ran off with your best friend? Seek therapy for whatever ails you my friend! I'm sure the CAW can direct you in the right direction....

January 12, 2011 @ 11:28 AM

Zoltan Grossman

Loughner repeated another hallmark of most fascists, by declaring in his video that the government is practicing “mind control” and brainwashing citizens through the educational system--even through the structure of English grammar itself. Some of these views are promoted in American Renaissance, a magazine that describes itself as “America’s premiere publication of racial-realist thought.”

The New York Times noted on January 10 that Loughner’s views on grammar closely reflect those of David Wynn Miller, a Milwaukee-based far-right activist, and founder of the Sovereign Citizens Movement. Miller himself admitted that Loughner’s “argument sounded familiar,” and “He’s probably been on my Web site, which has been up for about 11 years. The government does control the schools, and the schools determine the grammar and language we use. And then it is all reinforced by newspapers, magazines, TV, radio and everything we do in society.”

Unlike earlier incarnations of the Klan or Nazis, the far-right militia movement no longer relies on centralized organizations or personality cults, but on the concept of “leaderless resistance.” Based the 1970s Nazi classic The Turner Diaries, ideologues such as Miller (like William Pierce and Tom Metzger before him) inspire others to commit acts of violence through media or the Internet. This same concept of “leaderless resistance” has been taken up by other militant groups around the world, such as the loose Islamist network sometimes called Al Qaeda.

The U.S. government accuses a U.S.-born cleric in Yemen, Anwar al-Awlaki, of inspiring young Islamist militants to commit acts of terror around the world. The homeland security state has accused al-Awlaki’s websites of ideological responsibility for acts from the Fort Hood shooting to the so-called “underwear bomber” and the FedEx package plot. The Obama Administration has targeted him for assassination, and worked with the Yemeni military to bomb and launch missiles at Islamist insurgents that may or may not sympathize with Al Qaeda.

It speaks volumes to see how the U.S. government has treated the threat of Anwar al-Awlaki in Yemen differently that the threat of David Wynn Miller in Wisconsin. Although the young Islamist militants may themselves be psychologically unstable and have done poorly in school, they are presented as ideologically influenced by al-Awlaki’s websites. Jared Loughner, on the other hand, is depicted as a mentally ill loner, even though David Wynn Miller actually admits that Loughner’s far-right perspectives closely match his website.

If the Tucson shooter had been a Muslim, the media would have demonized the local Muslim community and mosque, launched an investigation of his ties to global groups, and probably launched commando raids, missiles or bombs in some Muslim country. But President Obama is not going to order the assassination of David Wynn Miller, not is he going to bomb Wisconsin in retaliation for the Tucson attack. Tim McVeigh’s hometown of Lockport, New York, was not raided or bombed after the Oklahoma City bombing. But if the culprit had come from Yemen, Pakistan or Somalia, we can be sure that military action would have followed against the terrorist’s home community.

This double standard shows the skewed priorities in the so-called “Global War on Terror.” Why is it so easy to accept that a website in Yemen can influence someone in Texas to commit violence, but not that a website in Wisconsin can inspire someone in Arizona? By defining Islamist militants as committed “terrorists,” but white Christianist militants as merely “lone wolves,” we are ignoring the underlying political motivations for violence in our country. In scouring the world for so-called “Islamofascists,” the government is ignoring the real fascists in our midst.


Dr. Zoltan Grossman is a professor of geography at The Evergreen State College in Olympia, Washington. His website is at http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz and can be reached at grossmaz@evergreen.edu He is a civilian Member of the Board of G.I. Voice, an antiwar veterans group that runs the Coffee Strong resource center for soldiers outside Fort Lewis: http://www.coffeestrong.org

January 13, 2011 @ 3:33 AM

McNulty

@ Il Duce
"@ Lowman from Mikeville

Typical. Here we are trying to discuss a serious topic like rational human beings and you have to resort to slurs. Typical form you pal.

What's really wrong Mike. Can you relate to Jared? Hate your job? Daddy beat you? Mummy drank too much? Kids in rehab? Wife ran off with your best friend? Seek therapy for whatever ails you my friend! I'm sure the CAW can direct you in the right direction.... "

You lost all credibility when you fault Mike (and rightly so) for resorting to insults and then do the exact same thing back to him.

There is a lot to discuss about this topic and the venom that is slurred by both the Left and the Right. Stooping down to these levels doesn't help the conversation.

January 13, 2011 @ 8:50 AM

Dave

I got an idea. Lets blame the Target corp. they have been using a target as a logo for ever!! See, now doesnt that sound as stupid as linking Sarah Palins map to this nut job shooter. Get a grip people, dont let the media fill you full of B.S.

January 13, 2011 @ 10:46 AM

Dollar Bill Clinton

Check out the Democrat Leadership Council map of Republicans in 2004. Maybe Sarah is a copy cat for stealing the Dems idea.

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253055&kaid=127&subid=171

January 13, 2011 @ 4:30 PM

Mike from Lowville

@Il Duce, come on ....nothing about Miss Piggy IS serious!

What slurs? You DO waiter at an Italian resturant....RIGHT?

January 13, 2011 @ 5:06 PM

Ajax Mike

Monument markers or rifle sights, it doesn't matter. Politics is Perception. They look to laymen like rifle sights when any other symbol (how about a dot, or a patriotic star?) would have sufficed. It was ill-advised, and is just another in a long line of poor decisions and gaffes. Palin doesn't have what it takes to survive two years in the media spotlight when she's NOT in office. How is she supposed to be effective as an elected official? She's done.

January 13, 2011 @ 5:59 PM

Vasiliki Vanderhyde

To everyone who is arguing for stricter firearm legislation due to the attrocity in Tucson, might I advance this meager tidbit: If firearms kill people, then pencils mis-write words, cars drive drunk, and forks make people big ! Keep in mind: View the individual responsible for their conduct, not the inanimate objectthey chose to misuse.

January 15, 2011 @ 12:07 AM

ichoose

It's only fair to say that if in the future, anything that happens to Palin, all of you who speak harsh words are now an accessory to whatever MAY happen OR because whoever believes your opinions and decides to act on it, should it cause her harm is now responsible. Some of you CLEARLY have a motive.

And while I point out the obvious, I want to make sure that you realize that my keyboard is to blame if I misspelled a word, if I drive drunk, well my car did it, its not my fault and I'm fat because of my spoon!!!

On behalf of the people who are dying for america, for peace, for the safety of their fellow man, I pray that your patriotism is not limited to what your blogs clearly say about your humility. I pray your faith in your own country is more than what is on the surface. Do you not see that you are humiliating yourself? Land of the free, the proud????? Home of the brave??? America, what does that mean to you??

January 16, 2011 @ 11:38 PM

ichoose

It's only fair to say that if in the future, anything that happens to Palin, all of you who speak harsh words are now an accessory to whatever MAY happen OR because whoever believes your opinions and decides to act on it, should it cause her harm is now responsible. Some of you CLEARLY have a motive.

And while I point out the obvious, I want to make sure that you realize that my keyboard is to blame if I misspelled a word, if I drive drunk, well my car did it, its not my fault and I'm fat because of my spoon!!!

On behalf of the people who are dying for america, for peace, for the safety of their fellow man, I pray that your patriotism is not limited to what your blogs clearly say about your humility. I pray your faith in your own country is more than what is on the surface. Do you not see that you are humiliating yourself? Land of the free, the proud????? Home of the brave??? America, what does that mean to you??

January 16, 2011 @ 11:40 PM

chuckbyf

Good Lord people. What do you say we use this opportunity to discuss the real problem. How did this nut job get a gun in the first place. As usual the American knee-jerk reaction is coming through loud and clear. Blame anything that remotely resembles the fault. The real fault is that these mentaly ill dorks are not identified, let alone in the system and shared with the companies selling the guns. Come on. Discourse people, real discourse!!

January 29, 2011 @ 10:00 PM

Seek Truth

What if we as a nation came to realize that the quest for empire eventually destroys all great nations?

June 6, 2011 @ 11:45 PM

Honesty for Change

What if conservatives understood once again that their only logical position is to reject military intervention and managing an empire throughout the world?

June 7, 2011 @ 8:28 PM

erik

Sarah Palin is a sick person.
What matters is that US have some more like Sarah!
Be like the Norwegians did and come back on your legs!

September 7, 2011 @ 9:11 AM

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